Clara......

[pamela]

Clara,

I read with tears what you posted to Judian about the feelings of grief that you had concerning the death of your sister. I am so sorry that your grief came back so strongly this year but as you explained it I can understand why. (((((((((((((((Clara))))))))))))))))) Big hugs to you. That post left me to emotional to respond to as Michelle continues to grow older than Michae...who was always her BIG BRother in every sense of the word.

Clara, the reason I am writing to you is that I am sure you have read some of my post in which I have talked about my youngest son Bryan. Bryan was with Michael at the races, saw him crash, saw everything that happened that day and spent 30 mins in the ambulance while they tried to save Michael life. he did this all on his own...wit only strangers by his side. He was 14 at the time. Him and Michael sounded like you and your sister, they were never apart despite their 6 year age difference. They were each others best friends. Bryan depended on Michael, but Michael very much also depended on Bryan. Their relationship was really getting strong as Bryan was getting older and be able to do more of what Michael could.

I am sorry I'm getting off track here...I am concerned Clara, concerned because I don't think Bryan has ever really grieved the loss of his brother. Bryan is a wonderful young man, kind, considerate, doesn't get into trouble, has perfect attendance at school etc...I know I should be glad...and I am glad he is doing so well. I guess I am worry that someday he is going to crash...I am so afraid of sending him away to school in a few years. Is it possible for Bryan to just go on with his life after what he has been through? My children are very deeply loved by both their parents and fortunately we have been able to keep on loving them, that is something I won't compromise on. No matter what I am here for my children.

Should I be concerned Clara? I would love to hear what you have to say. Thank you. I appreciate your time.

Love pam

[Clara Hinton]

Pam,

((((hugs)))) What a good looking young man Bryan is! I'm jealous of all of those curls!

Pam--yes, I've followed your story of loss and have read the majority of all of your posts so I understand the circumstances of your loss. (See? I really do keep track of my family!)

Would I be concerned about Bryan? There is a BIG difference in the way guys grieve from girls.......we all know that. The one thing that is not different is that grief does hit hard and nobody escapes it.

Yes, as a parent I would be concerned "if" Bryan has not shown any kind of outward signs of grief about losing his brother. I, too, did like Bryan. In fact, I was a super high achiever in school--graduated 3rd in my class and beat myself up because I wasn't first. (Neither parent cared at all if I was first or last........it didn't matter one bit to them. "I" was the one who put the pressure on myself.)

I was 15 when my sister died (she died of an asthma attack, and I was NOT with her, but I blamed myself for her being alone when she died. The guilt was awful. I pestered my mother to take me and my younger sister to the drive-in movies and while we were there my sister had an asthma attack and died. The hospital tried to locate my mother........but, that was the day before cell phones. ). Like I said before, the guilt I felt was horrible.

I made sure that I never missed a day of school. I did ALL of the housework.......in fact, my mother would always talk about me to others and say that I was a natural "work horse". I did everything I could to be in the good graces of my mother and father--not because of anything THEY said, but because of the guilt I felt over my sister's death.

I was hysterical at her funeral, but.....after that, I did not express my grief in the normal ways such as crying, getting angry, being sad........except to myself--in my room--alone at night. I often would sob with my face in my pillow--not really knowing "why". I just knew that nothing felt right.

Honestly, Pam, until I wrote the book, Silent Grief, I did not talk at all about my sister Carmella. This is how much I "masked" my grief. Two summers ago, I had a class reunion with my closest high school friends, and since I've written Silent Grief, they asked me some questions that were on their minds. They wanted to know how I felt about her death. How did I handle it? Who did I talk to? They commented that they never, ever remember me talking about her to them and they were my very best friends in all of the world. I totally shut down that part of my life. I hid my pain in public, but privately I was miserable--very, very sad.

I really don't think the grief hit me completely until my mother died. It was then that the horrible emptiness happened again and this time I knew what it was. I ended up with panic attacks, being depressed, having bad dreams, I was nervous, and very fearful--unnaturally so--of losing my children. The grief--and the guilt--of my sister's death finally hit me full force when I was in my early 30's. And, here I am dealing with it again.

Since I don't know all of the situation with Bryan, I don't know if he has talked about his brother and those awful moments in the ambulance and when the wreck took place, etc. I can guarantee you this--everything is in his mind. I would suspect that he feels guilt (as I did) because he was helpless. He couldn't save his brother, his best friend.

I know that your underlying fear is probably something we are afraid to talk about--suicidal thoughts. I can honestly say that even in the very depths of my sorrow and guilt and depression and empty feelings over my sister's death, I did NOT feel suicidal. I was lucky, I guess. Does Bryan feel those thoughts? Hopefully not. (I pray I'm not being too blunt, but as a mom I think this is always a fear we have with our children--especially children that are "good kids all of the time" when they are teens.)

What would I do for Bryan? Talk to him. I believe I remember in many of your posts that you have done that often. Keep lines of communication open. Keep a keen eye on him since he is such a good kid. That might just be who Bryan is, but he also might be trying to be good to make up for something bad that happened that he couldn't stop.

One thing I've learned about grief is that we cannot "force" a person to talk about his/her feelings. That comes in time. And, each person does have to eventually face grief in his/her own way. Nobody can take that pain away from us--we have to work through it on our own. As a parent, that's probably the hardest part about watching a child face grief--we can't take the pain away. However, we can open up the lines for talking, and we can let our children know over and over that we're there when they do want to talk.

I guess this is a long round about way of saying that I certainly would have concerns about Bryan if he has never shown outward signs of grieving the loss of his brother. Has Bryan had any counseling? I can't remember. If so, did it help? If not, would he consider having somebody to talk with--maybe just to use as a sounding board for this transitional time between high school and college and/or living away from home?

Grief is a tricky, tricky thing. We can hide it (for a while). We can sweep it under the rug (for a while). We can pretend it doesn't exist (for a while). But, eventually, we all have to face it. Some of us do better than others..................most of us have a hard time for a while. Maybe Bryan has already done a lot of his personal grief work without you even knowing it since you are an open, loving mom who lets Bryan know every day how much he is loved.

Please stay in touch..............have you read any books on children and grief? If not, I will suggest a few to you.

Again, ((((hugs)))), Pam. Bryan is a very lucky young man to have you for his mom.

Love,
Clara

[pamela]

Morning Clara,

Thank you for the compliment on Bryan, yes all the ladies love his curls, he does have the prettiest hair, and got voted best hair of his senior class. ;D

Clara, I understand the guilt that you have of no one being with your sister when she died. I have a lot of guilt about that whole day, guilt and anger. It sickens me to think that Bryan had to go through all of that by himself, and I have anger that the boys father wasn't there helping them that day, but chose to spend the day relaxing at home...

I didn't really know boys grieved differently than girls...but should have as we know woman and men grieve very differently. I can't really say Michelle has grieved a whole lot either, but I know she is more verbal to others about the loss of her brother than Bryan is. Unfortunately as a family, we don't grieve the way they say you should...if there is such a thing.

I think in some ways Bryan tries very hard to be "good" also as he knows how much I am still hurting. Bryan and I have always been very close and from the time Michael died, Bryan has been very , very protective of me. He still has to know where I am, where I am going and where I have been.

Just as you didn't talk about your sister, Bryan never talks about his brother, I mean he will join in in the occasional Michael conversation, but I really don't think that even to some of his closet friends he has ever discussed it. I wish I could say that I was good about talking to Bryan about Michaels death, but I have to admit...its very painful for me Clara and Bryan doesn't really want to discuss it. The sad thing is that he knows ,lots of details of that day, but when initially asked he didn't want to discuss it...I mean there are so many little details I want to know about that day...but how do I as a mother even think about asking those question? I can't do it Clara, I can't do that to Bryan....

I want to know did Michael make any noises or sounds when the Medics were working on him, did he move at all?...those and so many more...I know they shouldn't matter but they do....

I guess I will always feel cheated that I don't know all the details. I will always feel cheated also that the medics that spent the last minutes with Michael refused to talk to me...that has always, always bothered me.

I talked to a woman a few years ago who's brother had died and she said it was when her friend loss a child that her grief came out. I do know at some point Bryan's will come out and I can't say that he will be comfortable talking to me, as he knows how I struggle deeply with it. I did in the beg. try to talk with Bryan, try to get him to go to counseling, but he wanted nothing of it and I didn't want to push him.

I am worried Clara, about the day he leaves this house to go away to school, not so much the suicidal thing, though I have thought of that, but just that he might do things that he wouldn't normally do and that might harm his life.

Thank you for taking the time to give me so much advice, I do feel a little better. I would like the titles of the books you have. I think that would be helpful to me.

I want to thank you again for Sg, it saved my life Clara, I really believe that...and it continues to do so. My way of giving back is to try and reach out to as many people on her as I can. I never want those people to feel alone, and I know that is the foundation that you built Sg on. Take care of yourself.

My deepest love and gratitude to you,
pam

[emttori]

I don't mean to pry. I just want to say both of your stories touched me deeply. My son was the first loss I have ever had of a close family member. I am almost in tears even imagining losing my sister at all let alone at such a young and vulnerable age.
Pamela, I understand your need to know what happened in those final moments. I am an EMT, and unless by law I wasn't allowed, I would never refuse a parent or any other family member for that matter those final moments if they wanted to know. We can't sugar coat life, we know it is much harder than that. I have had losses of children on my watch at my job, and I grieve for those families even though I never saw them before, and likely would never see them again.
I hope that one day Bryan is able to talk openly about his brother. And I have no experience with this whatsoever, but I have to wonder if Bryan wants to answer those questions you have no matter how painful it is for both of you, because he probably hasn't told anyone about it. I guess just me as a parent who has lost a child wanting to talk about it, I assume everyone does. But from reading Clara's story I guess I assume too much. This is actually the first post I have read from Clara with very personal information and it helps me to understand her better. I have not had the benefit of reading your book yet Clara, but now that I have read this post, I feel I need to read it, so I think I am going to get myself a copy.
I will pray for both of you during this continuous difficult journey that is obviously lifelong, and somewhat easier with time, but never easy by any means.
Thank you both for sharing your stories and your fears.

[Teeny's Mom]

Ok, maybe I am sticking my nose in, but this topic is close to my heart. When Ally died, she was at school, the campus supervisor, her teacher and the school nurse were all personal friends of mine. NONE of them ever told me if she was conscious at any time. I want to know, did she ever have a heart rate? When did she stop breathing? when the ambulance arrived, how long had it been? Why did you move her from the playground to the office? ...
They all individually said that it was too difficult for them to discuss but that they did everything they could. I know in my heart that Ally was well cared for, but as her mother, I wonder and pray that she died instantly. I can't bear to ask them again, but I have flashbacks imagining if she had been conscious for even a second. I want to know that she went from this earth to the arms of God instantly.
Ally's sister has struggled with her sisters death and I have shared this before. I worry that she does not openly grieve, yet she has panic attacks, doesn't sleep and is depressed. She sees a therapist and takes medication, but she is so young (14). I, too, worry about long term.
I am going to buy your book, Clara. It sounds like it would be helpful. Thank you for starting this post and I hope I didn't interfere by jumping in.

[pamela]

Vicki and Cindee,

Hi, please don't apologize for adding to this thread.

Vicki, your must be a difficult job, having to experience the death of children. It hurt me deeply and still does that the EMT's would talk to me. I wrote them a letter even thanking them for trying to save Michael. Their boss said one quit after Michael died, and the other one just wouldn't talk to me or make any contact. All I wanted to know is what happened in those last minutes of his life..I feel cheated that I don't know. After numerous phone calls to the supervisor they mentioned the Accident Report, that I didn't know even existed. I did get some closure out of it, but have only been able to read it once. Thank you for your kind words and thoughts.

Cindee,

That must have been so hard for your friends to go through. I do think however in time they may be willing to share more with you. I guess if I were you I would have to know if I could and since you say they are close personal friends, I at some point would want to sit down and talk with them...I think....I don't know Cindee, like me protecting Bryan who doesn't want to talk about it, I am sure you feel the same way about your friends. I suspect You are protecting them in a way. Its all so hard, all so complicated. I guess what will always bother me is that I knew everything about Michael's birth, everything about what was going on in his life for 20 years, then suddenly it ended without warning and I feel like I still don't have the closure I need. maybe closure never comes when you are a grieving parent....not sure if we want it to. I am sorry to hear that your daughter is struggling. That must be so hard to see. It sounds like you are doing all the right things for her. Take care Cindee and good luck with your Student teaching.

Love Pam

[Corinne]

Hope you do not mind me butting here too. Pam, as I read your words about Bryan not openly grieving, my first thought was that he was protecting you. Then, as I read on, I see that you already know that. I think Bryan is afraid to open up to you because he knows that it will bring hurt, fear, anger, and a whole array of mixed emotions to you. He knows how much you have hurt and does not want to add to it until he feels you are ready.

I say this because although Tim's death was so very different than Michaels, David acts very similar to Bryan. They are the same age. David hates to see me hurt. He does not like to see me cry. He does not show his feelings well. One day I told him that I loved to talk about Tim and that although it hurt, it was good for me. He began asking questions and sharing some of his feelings. He still does not talk about Tim with his friends. I am willing to bet many of his friends from school do not even know he had a brother. He says he doesn't bring it up because he feels as though it makes other people uncomfortable and makes him very emotional.

Amanda on the other hand, will to this day say she has 2 brothers. She willinging talks about Tim's life and death. She needs to do this.

I do not know which way is the right way or the wrong way. I don't even know that there is a right way to grieve. It is so personal. I do think that when you are ready to ask Bryan what happened that day and he believes you are ready to hear it, he will share. I think he sences your apprehension about all those details.

It's too bad David & Bryan did not live closer, maybe they could share together.

Love to you Pam

Corinne

[jaredsmommyforever]

Hi Pam,

This post just caught my attention. I would recommend the book The Empty Room-- Surviving the Loss of a Brother or Sister at Any Age, by Elizabeth DeVita-Raeburn. I have not finished it, but I was VERY impressed with what I read, and it gave me a lot to think about. I hope it is helpful for you.

Clearly, I am having to navigate these waters too for my children. And I realize that I will have to watch them go through this for their whole lives. It is so sad and distressing. We are all feeling our way along, trying to do the best we can while enduring our own pain. It's a tall order, but what choice have we got? At least your kids have such a fabulous and caring mother in you...

My best to you always,

Love,
Denise
Jared's Loving Mommy Forever